Love your Diagnosis

Cat Seddon talking about Breast Cancer and not opting for a Mastectomy

November 21, 2021 Lainie Chait Season 1 Episode 9
Love your Diagnosis
Cat Seddon talking about Breast Cancer and not opting for a Mastectomy
Show Notes Transcript

In this Episode of Love your Diagnosis, I talk with Cat Seddon about her diagnosis of Breast Cancer and how she was whipped off to surgery two weeks after diagnosis to remove 8 out of 24  metastasised  lymph nodes in her body. 
After this surgery, Cat was told that she would need to remove one breast definitely, but to be safe recommended removal of both breasts as well as chemo and radiation to stop the spread and make sure that all cancer was removed.

After realising that this was all just a preventative way of addressing the spread, Cat went on a mission to research what else she could do to address her diagnosis alternatively. Her only interest was in her survival and she was open to everything.

It's a success story of having tenacity and courage when it comes to finding a treatment/s that align with you.

Enjoy and keep a notepad handy!
You can contact Cat here:
[email protected]

SOME LINKS CAT HAS SHARED:

  • https://niim.com.au/research-education/circulating-tumour-cells-ctc-study
  • https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/articles/features/ctc/
  • https://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/20-Questions-For-Your-Oncologist.pdf
  • https://www.howtostarvecancer.com/
  • https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170109134014.htm

This group was a huge part of Cat's healing. It’s amazing and full of evidence based research and information. Amazing for anyone with breast cancer
https://www.facebook.com/groups/healingcancerstudysupport/

To find out some ways you can look at using traditional plants as part of your wellness journey particularly for brain enhancing herbs click on the link below
https://www.happyherbcompany.com/

You can get my book here which is a raw and honest dialogue of how I went from completely using allopathic medicine to manage a diagnosis of epilepsy, to only using a small amount of medicine and managing the rest with lifestyle choices and other wonderful plant medicines and supplements
https://electrogirl.com.au/product/electro-girl-living-a-symbiotic-existence-with-epilepsy-paperback/

Also you can sign up to my quarterly newsletter below where tips and resources will be shared for you about different topics of wellness that you can  feel into and decide if they are right for you. Knowledge is power.
http://eepurl.com/hJfOHD

If you have a story that you think other people will benefit from and you would like to be on the podcast then contact me at
[email protected]

Find me on FB
https://www.facebook.com/electrogirlmutterings

A little side note:
These shows are meant to create food for thought for people going through similar situations. Planting seeds of information about things that perhaps you never knew could and might assist in treating and managing the symptoms associated with your diagnosis.
 

I really hope you get some good ol' nuggets of info from these interviews so you can go and start researching yourself and perhaps even start experimenting on the treatment that feels right for you instead of just letting someone else direct your health decisions.

I do everything for this podcast with no financial backing why? because I think it's important to share people's stories and successes in order to empower everyone!! As much as I love it, it does take a huge amount of time and if you would like to donate to the running of the podcast so I can keep these ad free
http

Support the show (https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=3TQ95ZU6EXBFQ)

Lainie  0:00  
All right, so I want to welcome Kat Seddon to the show today. And we're just gonna get straight into it, because that's what I love to do is just like puncture the whole point of why we're together. And so I'll start by saying, Hello,

Cat  0:16  
Hi Lainie.

Lainie  0:19  
And the very first question I have for you is, what were you diagnosed with? How long ago and just a little bit of a brief description of what it is that you went through? 

Cat  0:29  
Okay, so it was 2018. And I was diagnosed with breast cancer. It had actually I found out some a little bit of time later, it had metastasized into eight of my 24 lymph nodes. That's when it got a bit heavy. But yeah, so that was my diagnosis. And that was three years ago. 

Lainie  0:53  
So when you say metastasized, was that had it already metastasized before you got diagnosed? 

Cat  0:59  
No, I Well, I didn't know. So I, we were building a house and something I don't know what made me do this. But I decided that I wanted to have an ultrasound, breast ultrasound. And I did and the stenographer found something that looked a little suspicious. So I didn't have any symptoms, I didn't have any reason to be suspicious. And so you know, I still wasn't concerned, they sent me to a clinic up in Brisbane to have further assessment. And there, they did a 3d mammogram, another ultrasound, I was trying to what else they did, and eventually they found a little tiny something right up the back of my breast, of which they biopsied. And then I got a phone call in the curtain shop in the industrial estate actually from from that cleaning to say that it was that the cells that they taken from the biopsy were breast cancer cells, I told you that my phone over the phone, great way to get a cancer diagnosis, the poor woman in the curtain shop, I just burst into tears as she had her own cancer story.

Lainie  2:12  
That seem bizarre that they would say it on the phone, usually you get, you know, you get an email saying come and see the doctor or, you know,

Cat  2:19  
well, it was a clinic, you know, that's all they did. They just Yeah, did sort of further investigation, some breast cancer stuff. So. So then the whole thing starts with cancer where everything's urgent, so I urgently had to go in, even though allegedly, these lumps was small or this lump was small, I still urgently had to go and have surgery to remove that. And then they do a thing called a sentinel node biopsy where they take the closest draining lymph nodes. So they get you in beforehand, and they inject you with dye and they see where your lymph nodes drain to. And then when they're doing the surgery to take out the lump or the lumpectomy, they take out those lymph nodes just to check them. And they took out three of them. And so I still wasn't all that concerned when I was even when I was having surgery. But then about six days after the surgery, I got another phone call from my surgeon saying that it was in three of the three lymph nodes that they removed, and that I needed to go and have an immediate PET scan to see where else it was in my body. And that's when I really started to get frightened because that's metastases that that spread and cancer.

Lainie  3:39  
Before diagnosis. Can you just give us a little picture of what your life was like? You know, were you living a healthy lifestyle or your you know, we were drinking eating a lot of sugar, because we'll get onto diet a bit later. 

Cat  3:53  
yeah, I thought I was living a healthy life. I mean, I've always been a healthy eater, you know, I've had I always had a real focus on eating organic, fresh, lots of vegetables. I definitely had health challenges before the diagnosis, I worked in a really stressful job. And I was definitely drinking too much alcohol to try to manage that stress. And I also was aware that that I was struggling with my health I mean, I was 56 or something when I was diagnosed and issues with my sleeping I had a lot of digestive issues despite what I thought my health was I definitely wasn't very healthy. I can see now in retrospect but at the time, you know anybody would have looked at my lifestyle or looked at me and thought that I was a really healthy person.

Lainie  4:42  
But as you say, you were hiding a little little dirty secret which was stress and, and alcohol. So to the outside world what we display is one thing but then you know what's going on the inside is actually part of what I believe what causes all these little bits of disease. It takes something like that to make you kind of wake up and go. Alright, I got to take a really good look at this because I'm at the business end of my life.  So how long between when you basically got that call in the curtain shop and when you were on lying on table having surgery?

Cat  5:21  
Yeah, two and a half weeks, it's pretty quick. You know, what I discovered is the categorise, when you get diagnosed with cancer, they categorise it really quickly. And they, you know, if you're a category like me, you know, I was category A, which meant that I had to be dealt with within three weeks. Well, yeah, it's quite amazing. And that's the thing for people when they get a cancer diagnosis is there's just all this urgency, which I've since learned, it's not so urgent, you don't need to rush at it.

Lainie  5:48  
why do you think they they do that? Is it for your benefit? Is it for their benefit?

Cat  5:53  
I don't know why they do that.

Lainie  5:56  
So you didn't even get a chance to basically digest? Did you have to go and see a specialist doctor?

Cat  6:01  
I did. I had to go and see a surgeon? Yeah, she booked me straight in pretty much within two weeks, which, which freaks you out? Like I thought the the whole urgency was just around me, which just made me even more frightened about, you know why there was such an urgent? See, I mean, I've since then I've since learned that, you know, it can take anywhere between six and 10 years for a cancer tumour to grow. And then the same thing happened with my lymph nodes, once they'd discovered the lymph nodes again, then within three weeks, I was back in hospital, having all of my lymph nodes removed

Lainie  6:39  
at any stage. Did you feel that you had a choice in this? So the decisions were actually made for you, and you went along with it, because you're afraid

Cat  6:52  
No!  and I think as a society, we believe so much in the medical system, and we have so much faith in the medical system that questioning it is really challenging and challenged. I certainly ended up doing that later. But at the time, yeah. And also, it was really scary. I just didn't know anything about cancer, when you're very scared and incredibly vulnerable.

Lainie  7:16  
That's right. And that's actually one of the reasons that I'm doing this podcast is to educate people through other people's stories, that there's a choice, there is a choice, you need to do the research. And I'm excited to talk with you more about where you went from that. 

Cat  7:32  
Because that would be my number one message, if I was going to share with anyone would be you have a choice. And you don't think you do in the beginning, you're just so terrified, and you know, challenging what the doctors are telling you just seems like crazy. 

Lainie  7:45  
So the lymph nodes are gone, set the scene of what actually happened that did you feel that you are cancer free, then did they say to you, you've got to do chemo.

Cat  7:54  
Once that went, all the lymph nodes were gone. And that was that surgery was more challenging and more heavy on my system. And especially being so close to the last surgery, then the original surgery, it took me a long time to recover from that a few weeks, it's actually quite a heavy thing to do to your body to take out all of the lymph nodes. And I ended up with infection. And you know, you come home with the drain hanging out of you. And I had to have community nurses coming around every day to change that. And the next appointment with the surgeon was to talk to me about what next which was their recommendation to me to minimum have a single mastectomy, but probably a good idea to consider a double mastectomy, chemotherapy and radiotherapy. So the whole lot, they wanted to do everything. And I chose to do none of those things. But now they were difficult choices. I started researching when I got home from that appointment, because my mother she died of cancer, she'd been diagnosed at 68. And by seventy was dead. And watching her die, I think was one of the most traumatic things that I've ever been through. I, you know, I just never thought that that would be me having to make those choices. But I just, you know, I I really still to this day believe that was the treatment that killed her I think the cancer probably would have possibly would have killed her at some point. But at least her quality of life would have been better up to her death, whereas the quality of life was just destroyed. And so having seen that and witnessed that and being so close to my mother, I at that point, when they were recommending all of this other stuff, I was devastated. And that's when I started to research.

Lainie  9:36  
Great. So this this is good. This is where the story pivots up until now you've been compliant and you've gone Yeah, take that out, do this. I'll do that. I'll bend over, I'll do what you say. Because I don't know any better. And then when it gets down to potentially removing both your boobs, do people say boobs anymore?

Cat  9:54  
I think so. Yeah. Well, so I started to research and I started to ask questions. So the first question I asked about the mastectomy was, will it stop the cancer from coming back is that the purpose, you know, and the steps were no, it doesn't stop it from coming back, you know, they can cut both your breasts off, it can still come back in your chest wall cavity, etc. So really, the reason that they cut your breasts off is because I had what are called fibrous, dense breasts, which I think you know what I've since learned most breasts of fibrous and dense, and it makes it difficult to pick up the cancer. So they cut it, cut the breasts off, so that it makes it easier to detect. And, like, that seems like a pretty radical thing to do to your body. To make it easier to detect cancer should have come back. Of course, I was totally invested in ensuring I survived, you know, more than anybody else. And so I just decided to approach everything with a really open mind. And so I did go along to the oncologist because I wasn't going to outrightly say no to anything, but I just wanted information. So I went along to the oncologist with actually Chris Warks. He gives he's got a list of 20 questions that you can get off his website to ask the oncologist which are incredibly empowering. 

Lainie  11:18  
So you found a guy called Chris Wark, and, and who is he?

Cat  11:23  
So he's somebody who's had a cancer diagnosis himself recovered using nutritional therapies and alternative therapies. And now he's a real he's an advocate and educator, I guess. He's got a lot of resources for people who, you know, who have been diagnosed with cancer to give you a choice. And one of them was this twenty questions for your oncologist. So I kind of went into the oncologist armed with these 20 questions. And the first question or the go to the second question, and the oncologist was just looking at me, like, who are you? How dare you be questioning me basically wouldn't answer any of my questions, and actually sent a letter back to my GP and the surgeon was quite an unpleasant letter about me and how uncool I was, I was friendly, I really genuinely wanted the information. So then I got sent along to a second oncologist who I asked the same questions to and just decided not to go ahead with chemotherapy, chemotherapy can just have profoundly damaging effect on your body. And you know, what they said it was for to was to mop up any leftover cells, that they that they felt like they might not have got out during surgery as a preventative again, so I decided not to do that. And I also then went to see an another specialist about having radiotherapy. And similarly, they weren't very okay with me asking lots of questions, and they weren't really answering the questions satisfactorily. So.

Lainie  12:59  
So what like, what sort of questions are we talking about?

Cat  13:02  
You know, what I actually can't remember, I'm sorry,

Lainie  13:05  
I will put it we'll put a link to, to that. And it and I am interviewing him in a couple of weeks, which I'm really excited about. Because yeah, he's a wealth of info, and people are paying attention to what he's saying. And it's working for people, 

Cat  13:18  
His information was incredibly empowering. 

Lainie  13:21  
And that's what you need. Because as you said before, you're in the doctor's office, feeling, all this kind of fear and not knowing what you're up against, and whatever. And then you start to do the research and you find like minded people, and you find people with success stories. And then that's the empowering part. You know, you go, well, wow, I didn't realise that I could do this, this, this and this. In your case, what did you end up doing instead of the chemo, and the radiation?

Cat  13:50  
I've got a partner who's a fantastic researcher, I discovered researching not on Dr. Google, but on PubMed. So you really looking at science there. And a couple of things that had been recommended was IV, vitamin C. And, and you know, so we researched that, and there was a lot of science behind that.

Lainie  14:15  
Yeah, I've heard a lot about this IV ascorbic acid, one woman that did it herself and basically burned her veins. Yeah, because of the ascorbic acid. So you've got to be really careful with that. And so I just want to know a little bit more about your experience with this IV. Vitamin say, what did it look like? What did you do?

Cat  14:34  
So I definitely  wouldn't be encouraging people to do it themselves. No way. In the beginning, in the early days when I was trying to more heart what potentially could have been left behind from the surgeries? I did a couple of times a week, I would do up to 30 grammes of vitamin C in a saline solution at a doctor's surgery. It's really expensive, unfortunately, but there is an incredible amount of science around its effectiveness in killing the fast dividing cells of cancer, but also the cancer stem cells.

Lainie  15:07  
And is that because it builds the immune system to fight it, or is it a whole different thing?

Cat  15:12  
No, it's to do with oxidation. And yeah, like there's the sciences. I'm not going to be very good at articulating the science, but there is a lot of science about why vitamin C works. But it's got to be really high dose it needs to be IV. I mean, I also now take a lot of liposomal C, which is a really common thing in the cancer world, this particular doses up to 60 grammes is what is used, and I think some people don't always tolerate it either. And someone like me who's got really weak veins, that's a bit of an issue as well. You know, a port ends up being becoming a really handy thing some people elect to have a port put in because the vitamin C  does destroy your veins as well. Yes,

Lainie  15:57  
well, it's an acid. So what I take liposomal se as well, just as a preventative, but what would you consider a high dose? I take 10 to 20 grammes for the liquid though how do you equate a gramme to a liquid?

Cat  16:12  
So my so I get one from a compounding pharmacist who says a teaspoon is 1000 milligrammes. So, you know, I don't know, I take like three tablespoons, right? I don't, I don't say much anymore. I used to when, you know, when I was still thinking that I wasn't clear. I mean, the other thing that I do do regularly is is to monitor I don't use things like mammograms, and I do use the conventional blood tests, but I use another test called a circulating tumour cell test, which is a European tests that does test your blood, but it tests it for circulating tumour cells. And my last three of those have been completely clear. So I kind of backed off a little bit on the bottom and say, I also did like I did so many things in the beginning, I did go down the CBD path and I remember trying to talk to the oncologist about CBD and they just do not want to know about it. But yes, I did go to the CBD and THC path and I was actually prescribed that you can actually be legally prescribed that now in Australia. And there are question marks around whether CBD and THC is good for hormone positive cancer. I just think there's not enough known unfortunately yet that you know, it becomes a little bit of a personal choice. But I also used things like hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Hyperthermia, yeah, heat, heat kills cancer cells. And I took a different angle and looked at trying to eradicate any cancer stem cells. With cancer, there's the fast dividing cells which create the tumour, then there's the stem cells, and they're the stem cells that are immortal. And chemotherapy doesn't eradicate those, in fact, it actually can make them more even more potent, down the track and you know, can be you know, a big part of why people's cancer comes back. And it's generally never the primary of cancer that kills people, it is the secondary or the metastasis, trying to eradicate any cancer stem cells, which are the immortal cells is the way to go. And so there's an incredible array of things that do that. But also, there's a lot of things that you can take, like tumeric, boswellia, and a lot of herbs

Lainie  18:30  
So it's 2021 now, are you completely free of any cancer in your body at this stage?

Cat  18:39  
Ah, yes, apparently, allegedly. 

Lainie  18:42  
Do you know what the winning thing was for you? Is it just an experimentation of, of all the things that you're talking about?

Cat  18:50  
I think the winning thing was when I came across metabolic pathway blocking is something that I've I've seen work in much more advanced cancers, and it's the thing that gives me peace of mind. And that was with Jane McClelland. But when I found her book, How to starve your cancer, I really understood, you know, the, the thing I really liked about that was that it was a she's a really good researcher. She was in the medical profession herself. And it was a different theory, but it made a lot of it. Like it had a lot of science, there was a lot of evidence it was evidence based, and that's pretty much what I've done along with the of course along with I mean, I think there's a reason why you get cancer in the first place. It's not random I don't believe it's genetic with it all the research I've done I think it is very much lifestyle and so I've really had to, you know, I think ill health is a long time in the making. And I've had to really peel back like the, you know, the onion layers of my health and that's, that's a work in progress. And, you know, my work now is to keep myself healthy.

Lainie  19:59  
So what's metabolic pathway blocking in a nutshell, 

Cat  20:02  
in a nutshell, cancer is a, like, it's got three different metabolic feeding pathways, you know, so one of the big ones is sugar, metabolic pathway blocking is blocking all three pathways so that you starve cancer of any of its fuel. And and you can do that either using a combination of off label drugs, or I did it using supplements. We didn't

Lainie  20:29  
touch on diet, but I really want to because I know how massive that plays

Cat  20:33  
Diet was huge. So I thought I already had a really healthy diet. So something I learned I did a crash course in was blood sugar. I've learned so much about that. So I had really dysregulated blood sugar, my blood sugar went really high and also then you know, crashed down really low. And that is a real driver of cancer. Sugar is a driver of cancer. And it doesn't have to be that you eat refined sugar, it can just be that your blood sugar is really dysregulated. So I changed my diet to away from grains and fruits and just anything that spiked my blood sugar. In fact, what I did was I got a glucose monitor, stuck it to my arm for two weeks and scanned myself with everything I ate. A juices for example, can be really blood sugar spiking as well. So at first I went vegan, but it didn't really suit me. And I don't think that there should be real ddogma around idiet n& I think diets quite a personal thing. But I definitely don't eat much dairy because dairy is generally full of oestrogen. And that's not good for any kind of hormone positive cancer, carbs would spike blood sugar. So I'd find a carb, so I kind of pretty much went keto. But I'm not so strict anymore. Of course, alcohol spikes blood sugar,

Lainie  21:52  
I'm going to spike my blood sugar after this. I think if that's the case.

Cat  21:57  
And the other thing I did that really changed my health, in a really dramatic way was intimittant fasting. So I now eat in a really time restricted window. And at first that was difficult to do, because I would get hungry or hangry, which is a real symptom of dysregulated blood sugar. Now, it's so easy. I basically eat my first meal of the day around midday, a second meal of the day at six around 630. And that's it. And I do not get hungry and I don't snack and graze the human body really wasn't designed to snack and graze and you know, I have so many calories. The benefits of intermittent fasting for my health have been phenomenal.

Lainie  22:37  
Yeah, I've been doing it for years. Love it. Yeah, one more little quick thing, fruit. I want to discuss fruit because it seems that you're quite knowledgeable in all of this. Fruit has connotations for different people. And I haven't eaten fruit for a decade for just personal reasons. And you know what the sugar does. But there are so many people that say no, you need fruit and it's not it's not the refined sugars and you need that fruit but in the case of cancer, from what I've read and understand that that the sugars in fruit are still part of what could feed the cancer, is that correct?

Cat  23:09  
I definitely so I it's not so much any particular kind of sugar that will drive cancer growth. It's more just that metabolic pathway of the glucose pathway being elevated. You know, I think I look I think if you want to eat any any kind of fruit, then the way to do it is to balance it needed with some fats like yoghurt and things like that, but I don't think it's necessary. I'm and I'm, like I said, I think I'm the healthiest I've ever been. And it's a life minus fruit. You know, I think it's, it's like when people say cereals really healthy. Well, no, I completely disagree with that. And you know that all that old fashioned fruit, fruit and yoghurt for breakfast was considered to be really healthy too. But I'm definitely healthier. Now. I've stopped doing that.

Lainie  23:53  
Yeah, beautiful, which is empowering for anyone to hear really, because it's you taking personal responsibility for the fact that you are in charge of whether you your cancer will come back or not, in a sense. So what lifestyle changes did did you make from what you were doing? 

Cat  24:09  
I was working in a really stressful job. And I just gave up. Oh, well, alcohol was probably you know, a really big one.

Lainie  24:17  
So you've quit alcohol altogether?

Cat  24:20  
No, I did for a while I put it all together for probably the first year or two year and a half. Now I've just got a very different relationship ato alcoholh

Lainie  24:29  
 just tequila?.

Cat  24:31  
Just the odd shot No, I just definitely have a different relationship with alcohol and drink a lot less of it. The kind of psychological side of my health, which I think is probably the hardest. I left until last. That's that's kind of unravelling at the moment. I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to find him about to do deep immersion therapy actually using psilocybin and MDMA to kind of look into what else might be going on and who knows what I'll find there.

Lainie  25:00  
What would you say that you love your diagnosis? Would you say that your diagnosis has made you open up to looking at your life in a whole different way that you appreciate now?

Cat  25:12  
Absolutely. I probably about six months ago, I said, and I couldn't believe I was saying it. In some ways, cancer was was a really great thing that had happened to me because I completely overhauled my life. You know, I've got really strong meditation practices now. I'm a lot more grateful. You know, I've removed stress.

Lainie  25:33  
It's a second chance,

Cat  25:35  
it's a second chance. I tell you what, I am really grateful for Lainie, though, is that I had the tenacity and the courage to question what I was being told to do, even in a space of such huge fear. I'm incredibly grateful to myself to this day that I had the kind of way with all and balls to, to not do that, because nobody was supporting me at the time, my family were all terrified, or just want me to do the conventional treatment, you know, my partner even, I mean, he was supportive, but you know, he said he would have chosen that conventional treatment. And so really, nobody was going, yeah, go girl, you know, like, good on you. It is a pretty lonely place. And, you know, it's a lot of hard work, choosing an alternative path, like, you know, I understand why people just hand that power over. Because, you know, it's a big responsibility. And really, nobody's nobody's really looking after me, except me, I've got to be my own health advocate. And sometimes it's exhausting,

Lainie  26:45  
100% and high five to you, because that's how I looked at my own healing journey. And the thing is that you can never really switch off. No, so once you start on this thing, it's a lifetime commitment. Because if you switch off your fucked in a sense,

Cat  27:00  
especially for cancer, because, you know, you just you do live with that kind of pretty constant, It's not a fear because I feel quite well equipped. If it does come back. You know, it'll be a bit of a bummer. If it does come back. And you know, I need to be vigilant, I need to remain vigilant, you know, I've got a very different relationship with my health. Now it's a bit more life and death. And then you know, that immortality that we all think we have

Lainie  27:26  
it just comes down to personal responsibility to so Cat's, wonderfully agreed to be open to anyone that wants to contact her about the stuff that she's that she's used herself. Or if you want to if you're on a similar healing journey, and you want to contact her, her contact details will be in the podcast notes. But the last little thing we'll touch on is if you've got some parting words, which I know that you did mention before, to people that are going through something similar, what would it be?

Cat  27:54  
Or probably the number one thing I'd like to say to people is, it's not urgent, and you do have a choice. It didn't won't seem like that at the time. But 100% You have a choice. In fact, there ends up being so many choices that you can make, 

Lainie  28:09  
and you've got your boobs, your choices.   you can shake them around. Yeah, very impressed with the story cat via for the fact that you rose above it, and just wait, I'm gonna try something else. Yeah, and

Cat  28:24  
I am really happy. If anyone wants to contact me. There's just there isn't the most overwhelming amount of information that I really just there's no way I can adequately share even the tip of the iceberg on this podcast. And I know it's not really about the particulars. But yeah, if anybody does want to contact me with you know, just just to even talk through what the options are, what the choices for people might be happy to do that.

Lainie  28:50  
We'll put a few links up in the podcast notes to of some of the things that you've talked about as well so people can go on their own little research rabbit hole, but thank you so so so much for sharing your story. It's really important particularly yours because  You've done so much else it hopefully it will empower people to keep, you know, searching for themselves. So thank you for being part of this.

Cat  29:15  
Thanks for joining the podcast and giving people all that information and seeing that you know, showing people there is a choice. See you care. Bye